September 05, 2016

(Dr. Dan) Hey folks, welcome to DocTalk. I’m Dr. Dan Thomson, here with Dr. Mike Apley and I’m here with Tom Day, we’re at Orscheln’s in Manhattan Kansas. We’re going to talk about things that you can find here at the Farm & Home Store for your herd, for its health and more. Let’s go guys.

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(Dr. Dan Thomson) Well Mike welcome to the show. (Dr. Mike Apley) Thanks. (Dr. Dan) Folks this is Dr. Mike Apley, he is a clinical pharmacologist and a bovine Veterinarian at Kansas State’s College of Veterinary Medicine, where he is in the Department of Clinical Sciences at our vet school. We decided instead of doing it in the studio we’d just come out and shoot this episode at our local farm and home store, which is Orscheln’s. Welcome to the show and just in general when you start thinking about people, we still want people to work with their veterinarians. (Dr. Mike) Absolutely and it’s just that we realize that producers pick up things here too, and so we thought a trip through the medication aisle, the livestock aisle it would be a good way to highlight some things that are changing. In January as far as authorization you’ll need to use some of these drugs especially the antibiotics and medically important antibiotics, and this is a great place to illustrate what will and what will be changed. (Dr. Dan) Yes, so we’ll start out right here in the old super duper cooler and obviously we’ve got different products, but here is a bottle of penicillin. (Dr. Mike) One of the things you always do when you grab a bottle of penicillin– (Dr. Dan) Shake it. (Dr. Mike) Shake it up good; make sure it’s all off the bottom. (Dr. Dan) That’s one of Taylor Swift’s songs, is Shake it Up, not shake it off. (Dr. Mike) That’s bad, you’ll pay for that. (Dr. Dan) I know. Anyway penicillin, what are we going to use penicillin for, what are some of the characteristics about penicillin? (Dr. Mike) Penicillin we’ve had for a lot of years and people use it for foot rot and a lot of different things, it’s common on the farm. Right now you don’t need a prescription to buy this if you use it exactly according to the label, but if you use it any way other than on the label, you do need a prescription from your veterinarian and guidelines. (Dr. Dan) We all use it different than what’s on the label because it’s not effective if you use it per label directions. (Dr. Mike) Where you get in trouble with that is using it at 5ccs per 100 where a lot of people use it, and the label is for 1cc per 100. Then there is a withdrawal time, and the reason a veterinarian is supposed to be involved is so they can set that withdrawal time, as well as making sure what you are using it for off label is an appropriate target that it would actually do some good. (Dan) They are going to use penicillin; we are going to use it for pink eye, foot rot, different types of ailments around the farm, but really it’s for gram positive bacteria and things to that nature and so we’ll be doing that. Basically inside the cooler, outside of the B complex we really don’t have any other antibiotics in here, but we do have some other products as you can see the different vaccines. Vaccines and antibiotics are not the same thing, right? (Dr. Mike) They’re totally different they’re regulated by different agencies, so the changes people are hearing about coming out January 1, 2017 won’t affect the vaccines, they affect the antibiotics. They don’t affect the penicillin G we just handled because that’s not going to be changed. (Dr. Dan) Okay so when we start to think about coming in here folks you need to be thinking about using the right drug for the right bug, and if you are going to use it off label you need to get your veterinarian involved. (Dr. Mike) Absolutely and we should expect that the availability of this drug is going to be changed probably in a few years not right away but it will probably change also. (Dr. Dan) In the cooler Pen G, B vitamins, vaccines, we’re going to move down the aisle more after this messages.

(Dr. Dan) Hey, folks. Welcome back to DocTalk, Dr. Dan Thomson here with Dr. Mike Apley. We’re at Kansas State University. Well, we’re not today. Today we’re at the Orscheln’s Farm and Home, and we’re talking about things here in the vet aisle and things that you can pick up. We were talking about antibiotics Mike and I’m going to use this is a pointer, but we have two different types or three different types of Oxytetracycline. And I guess just kind of start out the difference between 200 and 300, and then what’s the difference between the name-brand product and the generics? (Dr. Mike) So the 200 has 200mg/ml and the 300, 300mg/ml. So given the same cc’s of dose, you get more drug for this one and it lasts a little longer and it’s different prices, different application, etcetera. And then the generic versus the original brand name, they’re also approved by the FDA and they have to meet manufacturing standards and certain approval processes. There’s two different ways of going around it. They’re the same drug, the same concentration, different manufacturer. A few things might vary and those are called Generics. So you have those choices and just as we talked about Pen-G in the cooler, it’s the same thing. You can purchase these without a prescription today. You can take them home and use them according to label. If you’re off the label, dose or indication, veterinarian has to be involved, should be involved to help make sure you’re using it for what it should be and to set an extended withdrawal time. (Dr. Dan) So when we look at Oxytetracycline, why would somebody come down and buy an Oxytetracycline relative to a Pen-G or vice versa. What do we use these for? (Dr. Mike) Well, these can be used for foot rot. There’s other off label things veterinarians will use them for. They can be used for respiratory disease, etcetera. There are a lot of different antibiotics out there for respiratory disease, so if you’re treating respiratory disease this is another example of when your veterinarian should be involved. There’s 12 or more different products labelled for respiratory disease. Which one would work best in your situation? Most of the rest of them are prescription. (Dr. Dan) Right. So when we look at other antibiotics that I see here in the counter, but I see some antibiotics here for lactating cows and basically for mastitis treatment. (Dr. Mike) There are two of them here that are for dry cow. One is for dry cows, and one is for lactating cows and they can purchase these without a prescription and use them exactly according to label. But just as for the other drugs, there are a lot of nuances to treating mastitis about which organism it might be. Some respond well to this, some don’t. So working with your veterinarian to understand exactly how to use those is very important. (Dr. Dan) And so, and you think that when we look at things like this, like the mastitis antibiotics and the over the counter Oxytetracycline, we know that producers are going to use these. The big thing is just making sure that we use them per label direction and make sure that we keep track of the animals that we give them to. (Dr. Mike) Absolutely. (Dr. Dan) Any other comments on things here? We got to go to a break here in about 20-30 seconds. (Dr. Mike) But there’s other drugs here that won’t be affected, probiotics, obviously, some of the dewormers, those aren’t affected by the changes coming January 1, 2017 but still a good thing to talk with your vet about it. About exactly what you’re targeting, how you’re using them and getting the best value from them. (Dr. Dan) Yes. Folks, whether you’re using them from the Orscheln’s, whether you’re using them from a distributor, always get your vet involved so you make the right decisions, so that you don’t create antibiotic resistance, and more importantly, that your cattle are healthy. More from DocTalk and at the Orscheln’s here with Dr. Apley after these messages.

(Dr. Dan Thomson) Hey folks. Welcome back to DocTalk. Dr. Dan Thomson here with Dr. Mike Apley, we’re from Kansas State University, College of Veterinary Medicine, kind of worked our way down the aisle here. We started out on the cooler; we’ve been here with the antibiotics. Now we’re going to talk about milk replacers and folks when you buy a milk replacer on the nutrition side, one of the things that we look at, first of all, is you want to buy something that’s 20/20 milk replacer for that newly born calf, 20% protein, 20% fat. The thing I look at probably the most on the tag as well, besides what the protein and fat content is, is the fiber content. We want crude fiber to be below 0.15%, indicating that most of the protein that’s in the milk replacer came from animal protein sources like whey proteins, or milk proteins, or some type of red cell or plasma, and not from plant protein like wheat, or potato, or soy protein, which has a decreased quality, decreased digestibility, maybe cheaper but there’s a reason why they’re cheaper. We tend to recommend more of the milk-based proteins. What about antibiotics? (Dr. Mike Apley) You can look at the labels and the ones that are medicated often times have Oxytetracycline or Oxytetracycline and Neomycin, two different common antibiotics. There are different types, there’s ones for scours, and that one’s labeled a type-B medicated feed, which means that it’s ready to be prepared and made into the type-C or the final one that’s fed. When you look at those, starting January 1, 2017, anything that’s medicated and contains a medically important antibiotic, again Neomycin or Oxytetracycline, you’re going to have to have the veterinary authorization in the form of a Veterinary Feed Directive to feed that and to purchase it. (Dr. Dan) When we start thinking about milk replacers, the other question I get is how often do I feed them? Read the label direction. I like to feed calves twice a day. You can feed them a gallon of milk replacer a day once, or two quarts twice a day. I do it twice a day just because I want to check the calves twice a day for scours and things to that nature. Then when people say, “Hey when do I wean calves?” I’ll be offering, I always offer calves that are on a bottle or on milk replacer, always offer them ad libitum water in a bucket and a starter feed, that’s going to be something you can also buy here at store — 18% protein, 10% fat. Once they’re eating a pound-and-a-half or two pounds that a day for two or three days in row, you can abruptly wean them off of the milk replacer. Many different things to think about, lot of different milk replacers on here, but again work with your veterinarian, make sure you follow the label directions. (Dr. Mike) Yes. One of the things you may want to talk about your supplier of milk replacer is do they intend to continue with the medicated milk replacer after the VFD is required starting January 1, of 2017. It’s good thing to find out exactly where that’s going to be available and where to–. (Dr. Dan) Yes. When you look at the bag, what you are going to be looking for? (Dr. Mike) Well, what you talked about, about the contents; protein, fiber, and then I also look for the active drug ingredients, so, for example, this one has Neomycin and Oxytetracycline. The other thing you can look for is these will be very clear with labeling, about this requires a Veterinary Feed Directive, can only be used under the guidelines from veterinarian through a VFD. It’s all about looking into labels, very important to look at the labels. (Dr. Dan) Great. When we come back, we’re going to move into the feed-grade antibiotics, from milk replacer to some of things you’ll supplement out on the ranch, more after these messages.

(Dr. Dan) Hey folks, welcome back to DocTalk, Dr. Dan Thomson and Dr. Mike Apley. We’re here at the Orscheln’s and we’ve been going down the counter, down the aisle and now we get to the feed grade antibiotics. Dr. Apley, these have kept you plenty busy. (Dr. Mike) Yes they have, people are wondering how things are going to change and this is a good example. This is a Chlortetracycline four-gram crumble. It’s a type B medicated feed and it will require a Veterinary Feed Directive to purchase. You’ll have to go to your veterinarian, discuss what you’re going to use it for or how you’re going to use it. The veterinarian will provide you a Veterinary Feed Directive. They may send the Veterinary Feed Directive directly to the distributor or may give you a copy that you then take to the distributor. But you’ll have to have those to purchase this starting this January, one. (Dr. Dan) These are probably going to leave our feed stores or leave the farm and home. They won’t be over the counter anymore? (Dr. Mike) It will depend on them whether or not they want to manage the Veterinary Feed Directives. They can notify the FDA that they’ll be a distributor, but then they’ll have to validate the VFD, make sure it’s correct. Then dispense on that VFD and know how much you’ve purchased versus how much it says. It will depend on if they want to do it or not. (Dr. Dan) Probably the most used antibiotic in beef cattle outside of feedlots? (Dr. Mike) For medically important, yes. It’s used quite a little bit, so it’s going to cost quite a little bit of change for producers, but it puts the veterinarian definitely in the loop. (Dr. Dan) We’re using it for Anaplasmosis control; we’re using it for Bovine Respiratory Disease, what are some of the other? (Dr. Mike) Those and there are some things that is currently being used for that aren’t on the label, for example, pink eye or foot rot. The veterinarian will not be able to write you a Veterinary Feed Directive for that because that’s not on the label, and they can only be used per label for a feed inclusion. (Dr. Dan) When we start to think about antibiotics, getting this out is important, getting this out, and what we’re going to do with this folks is make sure that you keep your records. What all do you want us to keep Dr. Apley for records? (Dr. Mike) How it was used, when it was used, if you mixed it, how you mixed it or how you fed it should all be on there. By law, the FDA can go to a veterinary clinic or to a distributor and look at the Veterinary Feed Directives. Then follow those back out to the producer and ask to see the records of exactly how it was used. If it’s used other than the VFD authorizes, which can only be label, then there is a problem. (Dr. Dan) When we start to think about this, obviously we’re going to increase our verification of how these antibiotics are used out there in the field. But it’s not going to be something like the first day black helicopters are going to show up. There’s going to be point and time where we’re going to learn how to work through this as an industry and as a government. (Dr. Mike) The FDA is being very clear they intend to exercise phased enforcement with addressing problems, helping people understand how to properly go through the process. That will eventually end, but there is no one out there looking to make examples at this point, they want everyone to learn. They want this to go through smoothly and that’s what we’ll be doing together. (Dr. Dan) Great. Well, folks remember always work with your local veterinarian, whether it’s antibiotics that you buy at the Orscheln’s Farm & Home, whether it’s feed grade, whether it’s milk replacer, whether it’s injectable. Keep good records, help us with anti-biotic resistance, avoid antibiotic withdrawals. Thanks to Dr. Apley being here with us today. If you want to know more about DocTalk you can find us on the web at I’m Dr. Dan Thomson and we’ll see you down the road.

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