October 03, 2016

(Dr. Dan Thomson) Hey, welcome to DocTalk, thanks for joining us today, we’ve a great show. It’s a topic we hear a lot about, autogenous vaccines. What is an autogenous vaccine and how they work, how do we make them? Dr. Gary Anderson is here with me from the Veterinary Diagnostic Lab at Kansas State University. It’s going to be a great discussion. You’re going to learn a lot. Stay tuned.

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(Dan) Hey, welcome to show. (Dr. Gary Anderson) I’m glad to be here. (Dan) Good. Folks, this is Dr. Gary Anderson, he is the Director of the Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory here at Kansas State University’s College of Veterinary Medicine. Very busy person, somebody that we’re very proud of here at Kansas State. I’m very thankful that you’d be on the show. (Gary) I appreciate the invite and looking forward to the discussion. (Dan) Awesome. We’re going to talk about autogenous vaccines, which I think people hear about a lot. We used a lot of vaccines, and we hear the term autogenous, but then, again, people say, “Well, what the heck is it?” What is an autogenous vaccine? (Gary) Well, I think, it’s really difficult to talk about autogenous vaccines without looking at the other side of vaccines, and so that would be the commercial vaccines in our typical way of thinking about vaccinology. Autogenous would be the more custom vaccines for our herds, and it’s generally a herd’s specific vaccine. A lot of attention needs to be given to diagnostics in finding the unique bug. For sure every situation doesn’t require an autogenous vaccine. We need to be very selective about the diseases we target for autogenous or custom vaccines. An autogenous vaccine really starts with the organism that is a problem. Could be a virus, could be a bacterial agent, could be a toxin, something that, an agent that does not have a commercial product available or there is a unique strain emerging. They’re really out there for emergency situations or very specific custom needs. (Dan) Sure. You should start me down. Basically, what you’re saying is, it’s a vaccine that is unique for the bug within a herd causing a problem; we isolate that bug and we make a vaccine specific? (Gary) That’s correct. Sometimes the bias is, “Mmm, are these quality products?” You’re creating a very specific vaccine for a very specific situation, generally that herd or the next adjacent herds so, they’re approved for, can go beyond that, but generally we want to keep it within a specific herd and disease. Looking for a veterinary client patient relationship that really makes that critical goal or key to having the best product available. Diagnostics and adjuvants matter a lot for autogenous vaccines. Some experience with how to make them. I’d really like to address the differences between autogenous commercial so people understand that at some point today. (Dan) Good. We’re going to. We’ve got Dr. Anderson here and we’re going to spend some time talking about autogenous, different things that you can learn about autogenous vaccine, working with your veterinarian. Thanks for watching DocTalk. We’re going to take a break. More after these messages.

(Dan) Hey folks. Welcome back to DocTalk. Dr. Dan Thomson here with Dr. Gary Anderson, who is the Director of the Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory here at Kansas State University but has a vast research and industry experience when it comes to vaccines. Developed a lot of vaccines throughout your career. Has spent his career serving veterinary medicine in many different capacities. We’re very lucky to have him in Kansas State University. Gary, when we left one of the things that kind of stuck to my mind as you say, “sometimes people don’t think autogenous has the quality that a commercial vaccine has”. (Gary) Yes, I think that is an inherent bias in the regulatory mechanism or process and then how it’s often viewed in the field. When it comes down to the regulatory steps between autogenous and a commercial product, really there is only one difference. It’s a big difference, but sometimes it’s not that big a difference and that is immunogenicity studies. Have the trials been done to really test that custom-made vaccine? Of course, that is why we’re able to respond to emergency situations or unique situations, is because those studies are not required. If you look at the production of an autogenous vaccine, it must be done in a licensed facility, USDA licensed facility. If it’s a viral vaccine, it must be made on USDA approved cells. The outline of production is approved by the USDA, just like the commercial vaccine. We need to prove safety in other animals and we need to prove that the product is sterile. All of those things are part of a commercial vaccine as well as a custom-made vaccine and, again, the difference is how does it perform in animals and that is largely left up to the practicing veterinarian to show it’s efficacy in the field. (Dan) You bet. From where we’ve started out with autogenous vaccines in 20, 30, 40 years ago, to where we’re at today, the quality, the regulation and the understanding. We’re putting the components together that a lot of the commercial vaccines have. (Gary) Correct. (Dan) So the only difference is we are responding in a unique situation, emergency situation and there’s no product that’s licensed- (Gary) Already licensed to deal with it. (Dan) -to fix it. (Gary) That’s correct. (Dan) We have about a minute here before we take a break, but what about the quality of the diagnostics? (Gary) My bias is towards diagnostics, but truly, if you do not have a high-quality diagnostics, you don’t find the difference or what makes that a truly custom vaccine. Whether it’s finding a unique virus or a different strain of a bacteria or even a toxin. The level of diagnostics has continued to leap forward in these last years. An example would be the influenza vaccines and the strain differences there, and so genetic sequencing helps us make better even autogenous vaccines. (Dan) Sure. (Gary) We get into genetic sequencing even for custom made vaccines. (Dan) You bet. One strain on one farm versus another and we’re responding to the emergency. (Gary) Absolutely. (Dan) Folks, autogenous vaccines are a great tool. We’re going to come back. We’re going to talk about some of the components that can go into these autogenous vaccines with Dr. Gary Anderson, right after these messages.

(Dan) Hey folks. Welcome back to DocTalk. Dr. Dan here with Dr. Gary Anderson, Director of the Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory at the College of Veterinary Medicine at Kansas State University, where we really have a good program in the VDL. Thanks to you and the leadership and many different pathologists and diagnosticians. If you do need a veterinary diagnostic laboratory, we’d be glad to work with you. (Gary) Absolutely. (Dan) Adjuvants. (Gary) Very, very important part of any vaccine or nearly every vaccine, but certainly critical for autogenous vaccines. One of the key differences between some of the commercial vaccines and autogenous custom-made vaccines, is the custom vaccines are all inactivated, they’re all what we call killed, killed vaccines. (Dan) Yes. [Laughs] (Gary) They should not be passing new disease on, but rather, obviously, protecting against the strains or toxins that are in that vaccine. If you have an inactivated or killed vaccine, the adjuvant or the carrier is critical. Vaccine producers cannot use carriers that have not already been approved for that particular species of animals that they’re going to be going to be used in. They’ve gone to some rather rigorous studies to prove that it does, those carriers or adjuvants, do enhance the immune response and they’re safe in that particular species. Whether it’s a cow, sheep, pig, and bird. (Dan) What exactly does an adjuvant do? (Gary) An adjuvant is normally around a quarter of the percent of dose that you give the animal. It carries a vaccine and helps the vaccines respond to the animal’s immune system. It holds a vaccine in place, it allows the proper immune cells to be stimulated, to come to the site and then stimulate a maximum, hopefully, immune response. (Dan) Okay. It’s getting it there, stimulate an immune system, holding it there. It’s a pretty important part. (Gary) It is a critical part of an autogenous vaccine. (Dan) I think that when we think back to some of the autogenous vaccines when we didn’t have the adjuvant technology, we’re working with killed vaccines. One of the other things that pops up a lot is endotoxins. And I’m assuming that we have better systems now to clean up these vaccines and prevent endotoxin load within the autogenous factors. (Gary) Absolutely. Sure, over these recent decades the commercial vaccines have worked hard to clean up their endotoxin content, but the same technology translates to autogenous. That is always a concern and a consistent objective of an autogenous vaccine company as well. (Dan) Cool. When we come back up we’ll do a little wrap up on autogenous vaccines. Thanks for watching DocTalk. We’re going to take a break, but more with Gary Anderson after these.

(Dan) Hey folks, welcome back to DocTalk. Dr. Dan Thomson here with Dr. Gary Anderson. We’re at Kansas State University’s College of Veterinary Medicine, where Dr. Anderson serves as the Director of our Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory, which sees millions of cases a year. He has a rich history in vaccinology and we’re very, very fortunate to have him, not only at Kansas State University, but also today on the show. When we talk about autogenous vaccines one thing is we’ve got to have the right relationship with our veterinarian. (Gary) Absolutely. Nothing really starts without that appropriate veterinarian-client-patient relationship. That is where it begins. The veterinarian must understand the herd situation and understand how autogenous vaccines can be used in that particular situation. They’re just a tool in his toolkit or her toolkit. (Dan) Absolutely. Quite a bit of regulation. (Gary) Absolutely. The regulation around autogenous vaccine is as rigorous as any other regulation the USDA has for vaccines. Again, that difference is those immunogenicity studies, which are critical. But there are many fussy things that the veterinarian, the producer and certainly the manufacturer must pay attention to. (Dan) And we use these in kind of an emergency situation, where we don’t have any other choice. (Gary) That’s right. And that’s one of the beauties, if you will, of the custom or autogenous vaccine situation in that, it is not unusual for a vaccine to become available for that particular herd or that situation in four to six weeks. With a little bit of maybe a difficult growing bug or maybe some of the viruses that could be six to eight weeks. But really, that’s a remarkably short time to have another tool in your toolkit as a veterinarian. (Dan) You bet. Then you said there were two main things on these vaccines, getting the right bug and the right adjuvant. (Gary) That’s right. Again, it’s back to the relationship the veterinarian has with the diagnostic lab or his diagnostic entity. Then putting that together with the company that he or she is willing to work with and making sure they understand the adjuvants that are involved in the various species and the kinds of antigens that they have to work with, bacteria versus viruses, versus toxins. (Dan) Then working with the right company to build that is important, because of the cleanliness and the regulation of things of that nature? (Gary) Absolutely. (Dan) Thanks for being on the show. Folks, thanks for watching DocTalk. I thought was an outstanding show. A topic that we see a lot, but we don’t really understand and Dr. Anderson, you shed a lot of light on the subject and we appreciate it. We appreciate you watching DocTalk, remember, always work with your local veterinarian and if you want to know more about what we do here at DocTalk, you can find us at www.doctalktv.com. Thanks for watching this morning and I’m Dr. Dan Thomson and I’ll see you down the road.

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