June 16, 2014

(Dr. Dan) Hi there, folks. Thanks for joining us today on DocTalk. We’re going to have a great show today. We’re going to talk about antibiotic usage in
cattle operations. Our guest, Dr. Fred Gingrich and he is from Ashland,
Ohio and we’re going to be joining us and talking about different ways and
different understandings of using antibiotics on your ranch or on your
dairy farm.

Closed Captioning brought to you by AgriLabs, the Perfect Pairing of Performance and Value.

(Dr. Dan) Welcome to the show Dr. Gingrich. (Male) Thank you. (Dr. Dan) Well it’s a pleasure to have you here and, folks, we have Dr. Fred Gingrich who is an owner and operator of a mixed animal practice in Ashland, Ohio, but you do a lot with dairy cattle as well. (Male) Yes. Most of my work is with dairy farms and a little bit with beef operations. (Dr. Dan) Awesome and as you can see from our backdrop, we’re on the road today and, so, DocTalk is breaking out of the studio and we’re out and about so that we can pick up people from different parts of the United States and really start to expand the vision and the understanding of what’s going on within our industries nationally and globally and, you know, Fred, you’ve been very active with the Bovine Practitioners and you’re very active on many different fronts and one of the fronts that you’ve active on is this antibiotic usage in cattle. (Male) Absolutely and I think it’s, you know, a real hot topic issue right now on farms with consumers and with legislation as well. (Dr. Dan) Yeah, and I think it’s hard, you know, sometimes to make the tie from the producer to the packer to the consumer and then we make that jump to legislatively and then everybody’s affected all the way along. (Male) Absolutely and, you know, farmers and ranchers want access to these products and, you know, we all need to use them responsibly and we need consumers to have, you know, the confidence that the animals that we’re raising for food are treated well and that their food is safe. (Dr. Dan) Yeah and when you start to think about antibiotics and their usage, you know, it’s one of those things that whether you say, you know, pre-harvest, harvest, consumer, veterinarians integral. (Male) Absolutely and I think, you know, consumers, they want veterinarians to be involved and, you know, we’re going to talk a little bit today about, you know, why farmers and ranchers should have veterinarians involved, how it’s advantageous both to their operation, as well as, you know, to the health productivity of their animals. (Dr. Dan) Right and as we move along, we’ll talk about that veterinary client-patient relationship, but, you know, when we think about antibiotics and we go back to antibiotics, what are some of the talking points when you’re talking to you’re talking to your producers, you know, about, you know, using it on the label or using it per directions and things to that nature? (Male) You know I think that the number one thing that we want to make sure of is that the animals that are getting treated with antibiotics should be treated with antibiotics and, so, you know, there needs to be some type of formal decision making process on the farm, either with the farmer or their employees about how they’re going to use antibiotics and make sure they’re using them in an appropriate manner. (Dr. Dan) You bet. Well we’re about time for a break now and, so, we’ll take a break. When we come back, we’re going to continue our discussion with Dr. Fred Gingrich, who is from Ashland, Ohio. We’re talking about antibiotic usage on farms for beef cattle and dairy operations. You’re watching DocTalk. We’re sure glad that you joined us today.

(Dr. Dan) Hi there, folks. Welcome back to DocTalk. Dr. Dan Thomson here and DocTalk is on the road and we are visiting with Dr. Fred Gingrich, who is a mixed animal practitioner and owner who does a lot of dairy and beef cattle work in the Ashland, Ohio area and thanks for joining us today. Thanks for taking time out of your schedule that we could get you here to visit on an important topic, antibiotics and food animal production, but let’s start out with what we call the VCPR or the veterinary-client-patient relationship. (Male) Well the VCPR is an integral part of using any type of drug on dairy and beef farms and it’s actually a federal law called AMDUCA, the Animal Medical Drug Use Act and essentially that describes how veterinarians should have input on use of antibiotics on farms. (Dr. Dan) And, so, when we start to think about this and the VCPR is, you know, kind of one those debated what exactly it is and what constitutes a veterinary-client-patient relationship. What are some of the things that go through your thought process when you’re saying, okay, I have a VCPR with this beef producer or dairy producer? (Male) You know I think there are probably three important points of the VCPR. The first one is that that veterinarian is familiar with the animals and the farm operation and that can take various forms. Veterinary visits to the farm are a very integral part of that familiarity with the operation. I think the second part of the VCPR is we want to make sure that producers are keeping accurate treatment records of the animas that they treat. That’s extremely important and then the third part is that there needs to be some oversight or some monitoring of those records to ensure that the antibiotics or other drugs are being used in the most effective manner that we can use them in. (Dr. Dan) Now, and I think that, you know, it gets back to I don’t know that the producers sometimes understand the value of that VCPR and protecting them and protecting, you know, the food that they’re producing. (Male) You know the FDA has stated that one of the biggest things they find in violative residue issues is that there’s a lack of a VCPR, that having an adequate VCPR decreases the risk of having residues and all farmers want to avoid those residues and those violations. By having that VCPR, veterinarians can both decrease the risk of a residue as well as improve the effectiveness of a farmer or rancher’s treatment on their animals and often times, we see that that can greatly decrease their drug costs as well as improve the response of their animals and return them to heath and productivity. (Dr. Dan) Absolutely and I think it’s important to note that, you know, that when we have a residue issue, it goes back to those producers and they’re on a list on that point forward. (Male) Absolutely. You know we don’t want, you know, one of our goals is, you know, to have no residues, you know, it’s a lofty goal, but that’s what we’re always striving for. We do not want, you know, our producers to be visited by the FDA and by having that goal, we also can improve that confidence in the food that we’re making. (Dr. Dan) I think it’s great. After the break, we’ll have more with Dr. Fred Gingrich.

(Dr. Dan) Hi there, folks. Welcome back to DocTalk. I’m Dr. Dan Thomson from Kansas State University and we’re on the road today and we’re meeting with Dr. Fred Gingrich, who is a dairy and beef practitioner, who owns a mixed animal practice in Ashland, Ohio. Thanks for joining us. (Male) Thank you. (Dr. Dan) Appreciate the discussion that we’re having on antibiotics and judicious use of these antibiotics and as we’re talking during the break, we’re saying, Hey, let’s talk about what kind of records people need to be keeping when they’re on the farm or ranch. So what are some of the things that you recommend to your clients that we need to be keeping track of? (Male) You know the FDA has defined what they want in treatment records and various producer and veterinary organizations such as AADP have templates for what should be in treatment records. You know the big items we want is we want an I.D. of the animal. We want the date they were treated, what they were treated with, how much they were treated with, how it was given, was it injection, IV, IM? We also want listen on there the appropriate meat or milk withholding times and then it’s a good idea, especially for larger operations, to record who gave the treatment employee. (Dr. Dan) Oh, yeah and then you can go back and double check to make sure that we don’t have an operator error within the operation. When you’re talking about withholding times, how do we come up with withholding times and is that set by FDA, USDA? (Male) When products are approved, the drug sponsors, the pharmaceutical companies that are requesting that approval for that product, they submit that data to the FDA and an appropriate withholding time is derived. They base it on the intake of that food product by people called an average daily intake and the FDA arrives at a safe level of that product in the meat or milk and it’s typically in parts per million or parts per billion or a teaspoon in an Olympic swimming pool, very minuet amounts that we deplete that level to before it’s safe for human consumption. (Dr. Dan) Gotcha and, so, records, withholding times, you know, what’s something else that a producer probably needs to be you know we talked about the valid veterinary client-patient relationship. What are some of the things that any additional records or? (Male) I think a big thing is that when you’re using a drug in an extra label manner, how that effects both the law and you’re withholding time and by that, I would mean, like an example would be let’s say you’re giving a dairy cow penicillin and the label for penicillin is about ten CC’s for an adult Holstein cow and most veterinarians and dairy producers use much higher doses for effectiveness of the product, but when you do that, you change the withhold. That’s an extra label use. You’re using it in a manner not listen on the label. You need to then get that information from your veterinarian, what the appropriate meat and milk withholding time is, so all extra label use needs to have that veterinary input. (Dr. Dan) Perfect. Well we’re going to take a break. Great information. Folks, hope you’re enjoying the show today. We’ll be back here after the break, more with Dr. Fred Gingrich.

(Dr. Dan) Hi there, folks. Welcome back to DocTalk. I’m Dr. Dan Thomson here with Dr. Fred Gingrich, who is a dairy and beef practitioner from the Ashland, Ohio area and he also owns a mixed animal practice there and we’ve had a great show and really enjoy you taking the time to spend with us, Fred, and you know, when we talk about antibiotics, the big thing we want to avoid is residues in our food products and that’s the reason why it’s so important that we manage these appropriately, but let’s just start out with what’s a residue. (Male) What a residue is it’s when a meat or milk, egg
product, a food product derived from the animal has a level of antibiotic in it above what the FDA considers to be a safe level. (Dr. Dan) Okay, and as we look through beef and dairy industries, you know, what are some of our, I don’t want to call them problem products, but there are some that cause us more issues whether it’s how we inject them or where we give them that are causing us some problems. (Male) Well first thing I think is that we have made great strides. (Dr. Dan) Absolutely. (Male) The number of meat and milk residues has decreased dramatically and that’s through the efforts
of both the farmers and veterinarians, but some of the most, some of the common residues would be, for instance, like Flunixin or Banamine is a common trade name, giving that product in a manner not listen on the label, which is IV only, greatly increases the risk of a residue. (Dr. Dan) And it’s a great product. I mean, you know, that’s the thing is that we’re not here trying to, you know, say anything negative about a product. It’s one of those things that it’s a service to the product because we want to make sure we have it to go utilize it. (Male) That’s right. You know we use a lot of it and it’s a good product, but it should be used, you know, according to the label, how it’s written. Penicillin would be another one like we talked about. It’s a common cause of meat residues and, you know, that’s from using higher doses like we talked about in the last segment and not changing the withholding times. (Dr. Dan) And I think it’s important too that people understand that if you don’t give, if it’s an over-the-counter drug like penicillin and you go buy it at the fleet and farm or wherever and you use it at a dosage that’s not on the label, you have to have veterinary oversight to be able to do that and, so, that you can get that extra withholding time. (Male) That’s correct. That’s extra label drug use and in order to use a drug in an extra label manner, the direction has to come from a veterinarian, not on each individual case, but you have to, if your veterinarian has described a protocol for treating a disease with a certain antibiotic that’s extra label, as long as that’s come from your veterinarian and you follow his or her meat and withholding times and keep records, then you’re in compliance. (Dr. Dan) So what’s kind of your bullet list on antibiotics? (Male) You know I think the first one is get a diagnosis, have a protocol from your veterinarian and treat the animals that need to be treated appropriately and then keep good records and make sure that you’re following the appropriate meat and withholding times. (Dr. Dan) Thanks again for joining us today. It’s been a great show. (Male) Thank you. (Dr. Dan) Folks, I hope you enjoyed. It’s some great information on a very practical and relevant issue that we’re seeing in the operation. We want to keep our drugs working safe and keep them as a tool in the toolbox. If you want to know more about what we do on DocTalk, you can find us at www.doctalktv.com. Remember always work with your local practitioner. We appreciate you watching the show. You’ve been watching DocTalk. I’m Dr. Dan Thomson from Kansas State University and I’ll see you down the road.

Closed Captioning brought to you by AgriLabs, the Perfect Pairing of Performance and Value.

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