August 01, 2016

(Dr. Dan Thomson) Hey folks. Welcome to DocTalk, we’re going to have a great show today. We have Dr. Matt Miesner joining us. And we’re going to talk about some things coming up on the show’s season, we’re going to talk about ringworm and warts and different things that can grow on the skin of cattle. Stay tuned after these messages to listen more from Dr. Miesner.

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(Dr. Dan) Matt, welcome to the show. (Dr. Matt Miesner) Glad to be here again. (Dr. Dan) Folks, this is Dr. Matt Miesner. He’s an Associate Professor here in our Veterinary Health Center at Kansas State University where he sees a lot of animals. He’s one of our medicine and surgery specialists here for beef cattle. You spend a long time down the clinic. (Dr. Matt) Yes. In fact I’m amazed you managed to get me to come back here. (Dr. Dan) [Laughs] We kind of had to snag him away from a case actually leading right into what we’re doing today. And we’re going to talk about warts and ringworm but we thought we’d start out by talking about some wart issues. And I didn’t realize there are so many different types of warts. (Dr. Matt) Yeah I think that people are researching these kind of things in cattle, we see – everybody thinks, “Well I’ve got warts.” And the research is showing up to 15, 16 different strains of just bovine specific papillomavirus or types of virus that causes warts in cattle, so a lot of them. So they’re not all created equal, that’s for sure. (Dr. Dan) And you were talking about – and you get them all kinds of different places. (Dr. Matt) Sure. And so each of those strains, generally have a specific area they like to grow in. And, so you’ve got a bunch of different skin types in which we’re used to seeing these big old giant tumor looking on cattle. Some that are specific for the reproductive tract, the penis on bulls, the reproductive areas on cows, got areas that tend to like to form in the esophagus and the intestines, you name it. And so each of those strains wants to go to a certain area. (Dr. Dan) Okay. And then can you – I mean obviously based on the placement of them, but then can you send them in and get diagnostics on them or things to that nature? (Dr. Matt) So I mean I think that it’s pretty, when you see a wart, it’s pretty predictable as to what it is. We don’t necessarily need a biopsy to prove that it’s a wart. What we see sometimes is more of the clinical problems with those types of things. And so they can get out of hand or they can cause bleeding in certain areas especially the reproductive tract that hinders– sterility in bulls if you’ve got blood in your semen with that kind of thing. So we don’t really need to necessarily biopsy to prove it, but certainly there are some things that it could be. And so occasionally we’ll look at them and maybe this wart is characteristic of some other type of a tumor. So we may want to but most of the time warts are pretty predictable. (Dr. Dan) You mentioned that these are caused by viruses, papillomavirus. And so lends me to, we have pretty good vaccines against viruses; can we have vaccines against warts? (Dr. Matt) Yes. And there is at least one licensed vaccine against warts. And when I mentioned there are so many different strains in that watt, this vaccine tries to incorporate as many types as possible. And actually the company will solicit submissions from veterinarians or producers to try to get more strains, okay. So there’s only one that does it and tries to encompass all of these. And so as vaccines would be, sometimes it’s effective, sometimes it’s not. But that’s about the only way to truly get some sort of immunity against the virus. (Dr. Dan) And you said that’s in Colorado? (Dr. Matt) Well, the company is Colorado Serum Company, but after that I don’t know where it’s from but that’s the one vaccine that I know of. (Dr. Dan) Cool. Well, many different types of warts. Best prevention is going to be a vaccine, Colorado Serum Company. We’re going to come back a little bit and talk with Dr. Miesner about how we’re going to treat cattle, how long it takes for the clinical signs to go away or for the warts to be gone. Thanks for watching DocTalk, more after these messages.

(Dr. Dan) Hey folks, welcome back to DocTalk. Dr. Dan Thomson here with Dr. Matt Miesner. We’re from Kansas State University’s College of Veterinary Medicine where Dr. Miesner is an Associate Professor in the Department of Clinical Sciences. And he’s also our section leader for the Livestock Services section. Changed the name. (Dr. Matt) Yes we did, yes. (Dr. Dan) No more Ag Practices, now we’ve got Livestock Services. But basically he is internal medicine specialist and sees a lot of cases here. Lots of cattle coming through our clinics, specialty cases, regular cases and we’re talking about warts. So we get a calf in here and it’s fair time or whatever and someone comes in says, “Oh shoot, I got a wart I need to get rid of.” What are we going to do? (Dr. Matt) And there’s probably kind of to that there are several reasons that we’ll see it. One would be show season; 4-H season and warts on the skin are going to be one of those things that don’t allow you to go into the fair. Because it is a virus, it is a contagious virus; it is one of those things that they don’t want to have there. Not only is it unsightly, but also it’s one thing so probably one of the reasons we’d see it. And so if you think you’ve got warts or you know you’ve got some on there you should – you’d want to plan ahead to get rid of them, at least a month before you go. And as we have for prevention, meaning a vaccine against the virus. The way that we treat these is to try to remove them. And sometimes it’s a matter of just surgically removing them, we freeze them, we can burn them off, we do a whole bunch of things and we leave a little wart. And that being that it’s supposed to stimulate the immune system to fight off anything else. (Dr. Dan) So it’s kind of like a natural vaccine and you irritate it, the virus is– get an immune response and then it prevents others from forming, and then also attacking the wart. (Dr. Matt) The ones that are there. (Dr. Dan) That are there. (Dr. Matt) Yes. So you’re hoping that you’re internally stimulating the immune system to fight it off. And – but it takes time. So we can remove it, we’re going to have some wounds that need to heal but we’re also going to have to take time to let the body heal those up. (Dr. Dan) Yes. So at least a month ahead of the fair or wherever you’re going to show that animal, you need to get after and you try to get it done. (Dr. Matt) That’s for skin ones. (Dr. Dan) Not penile warts. (Dr. Matt) So penile warts, bulls, reproductive exam, Breeding Soundness Exams in the spring, very common to notice warts in young bulls. Most of them will resolve on their own as their immunity develops, okay. But if they test a bull and they see a wart, certainly anything on that wart when it tries to breed can cause bleeding. Bleeding is not going to allow him to get – have a successful pregnancy because that’s going to hinder it. So then we’ll possibly talk about taking that watt off if it doesn’t go away on its own. And again planning ahead, we usually try to take these off, remove the wart; check them in two weeks make sure it’s gone, okay. Some of them are really persistent and they don’t want to go away. So a lot of times we’ll see these we have to treat multiple times before they go. And– but again, planning for at least a month ahead to get these stuff cleared up. 60 days prior to or at least a month prior to breeding season this thing needs to be cleared up and those kind of things. (Dr. Dan) So and – you probably take those off the same way, excise them or freeze them. (Dr. Matt) Surgery, freezing, we do some laser therapy in the clinic, so some of those kind of things. And, so there’s multiple ways to try and depending on the strain sometimes they are a little difficult to get gone. So when you plan ahead. (Dr. Dan) Ever vaccine, ever vaccinate in the face of already having warts? (Dr. Matt) Yes, we do that too. Just trying to see if we can stimulate it. But usually that strain is going to be very specific. (Dr. Dan) Cool. Well take a break and then we’ll switch gears to something a little more itchy, ringworm. Folks thanks for watching DocTalk. Dr. Matt Miesner, Dr. Dan Thomson. More after these messages.

(Dr. Dan) Hey folks, welcome back to DocTalk. Dr. Dan Thomson here with Dr. Matt Miesner who’s an Associate Professor and the Section Head of Livestock Services, our practice here at Kansas State University’s College of Veterinary Medicine. Does a lot of work teaching, is nationally acclaimed and does a lot of speaking out there at veterinary meetings. Glad to have you on the show. Grab you out of the driveways, heading out the clinics in the truck to go work on a case. Said, “Hey, you mind shooting this real quick?” But anyway, ringworm. (Dr. Matt) Yes, another fun one. And I apologize; yes I didn’t have time to go through makeup and hair. [Laughs] (Dr. Matt) Not a big deal. Ringworm is another one of those skin problems. And when we had – we talked a little bit in the past about warts and ringworm. It’s a name of worm but it’s actually a fungus, okay. And it can sometimes look like warts because sometimes it gets kind of a crusty surface to it. So, but ringworm is actually not a worm; it’s a fungus and it’s a contagious fungus. It’s another one of those skin things; it will keep you out of the fair because they don’t want to have that type of a contaminant in the environment or on other animals to create other problems. (Dr. Dan) Mainly contagious cattle to cattle but there could be some issues where it could be zoonotic, right or from cattle to people. (Dr. Matt) Yes, so sure. I mean it can go from critter to critter, critter to post to critter, it can go critter to you to critter. And it can go – some species of ringworm in animals can be transmitted to people to cause clinical problems. Some severe itching and other things. And some people are more susceptible to it than others. But ringworm, some of these – again a bunch of different species of ringworm. And a lot of them are species specific in cows, to different cow types, and goats and cats and – but some of those species are certainly zoonotic for sure. (Dr. Dan Thomson) Oh I’ve had clients come in and had ringworm on a cat and then you look at their arms and on their arms or wherever they’re holding that cat. (Dr. Matt) Yes just — (Dr. Dan) Be careful. (Dr. Matt) Yes, it’s not pretty. (Dr. Dan) And then there’s – you said there’s no vaccines for this. (Dr. Matt) Right. So, and like the warts or other skin things where – you got a typical virus, a fungal type situations like this, there’s really no preventative mechanism like a vaccine for it. It’s just – it’s one of those things you either clear it or we treat it and take care of it. (Dr. Dan) So they’re picking it up where? (Dr. Matt) In the environment. And so again usually it’s an animal that’s had it, they’re carrying it, they’re contaminating the environment with it. And they can reside in various areas as long as it’s in the right environment it can last, and an animal can rub up against the post or a gate or anything and manage to get it. In that situation too. (Dr. Dan) So where we look at prevention basically is going to be if you have an animal you’re going to isolate it, and then the rest of it is take care of the environment, and make sure that we get it cleaned up. (Dr. Matt) Sure. Yes, you want to – a lot of areas will be self-cleaning, and get sunlight and those kind of things. But moist dark areas and bunch of crevices can hold it, and then got to be careful with that kind of thing. (Dr. Dan) You think about some of the show cattle that we keep inside or keep them in cooler boxes, things of that nature you might want to disinfect or scrub down those cooler boxes. (Dr. Matt) Yes, those kind of things. Again be careful on those moist dark areas and — (Dr. Dan) Wear gloves. (Dr. Matt) Wear gloves. (Dr. Dan) Alright. Let’s take a break. Folks you’re watching DocTalk, Dr. Matt Miesner here. When we come back we’ll talk about how to treat ringworm after these messages.

(Dr. Dan) Hey folks, welcome back to DocTalk. I’m here with Dr. Matt Miesner who’s an Associate Professor in the Department of Clinical Sciences, and the Section Head of the Livestock Veterinary Services here at Kansas State’s Veterinary Health Center. We’re talking about ringworm and the fungus among us. And when we get dogs and cats and people, we can use them not just topical things, but we can actually treat them with antifungals, systemic antifungals. And that we don’t do that much in the beef cow. (Dr. Matt) Don’t do that much in cattle. And the reason being is that it’s fairly expensive, being ruminants it’s hard to get the volume that you want into them to be effective in treating these kind of things. And so in almost all situations it’s not really practical or – we don’t even really know how effective it is to give a drug like Griseofulvin when it is the drug that a lot of people would get or cat might get or something. But not going to be something that we pick off the shelf readily. (Dr. Dan) And we’re eating these animals. And so withdrawals and things like that in some of these products. But so when you start to think about, “Well I go get my veterinarian to give me something that’s internal that I – we had a cat and we gave it this and it dried it up.” Probably not going to be the same. (Dr. Matt) A lot different decision process in that and not just cost. So again effective, cost, withdrawal times, those kind of things. So systemic treatment is pretty unlikely. And that’s really – some of those drugs really – they only ones are proven. There’s some theoretical treatments with iodides and iodines, and other treatments that have really not been proven, certainly have their own side effects that have been attempted but really not approved. The only things that you can really do for these are treat them topically, clean them, Betadine type things and sun drying. There’s been a bunch of witch magic out there with flour treatments, I’m not going to mention names on these because it’s not right. But there’s been some things that – diesel solvents and a bunch of different things to try to dry these out. That have been tried, again not proven and maybe more irritating than good. But there’s a bunch. Ringworm is – it creates a bunch of desperation because it’s a hard one to get rid of. (Dr. Dan) And I think that – the other thing is as you mentioned earlier, Fungus, ringworms and humans versus cats, versus dog and cow can all be different. Try and buy over the counter stuff for humans and your product work on cattle. Again getting back to iodine; scrub, clean it and get it out on the sunshine and dry them out. A lot of them self-resolve? (Dr. Matt) Yes. Lot of them will clear out on their own and I think a lot of it has to do with the individual’s immune system. You have some people more susceptible to it, some cattle are having trouble getting rid of it. It has to do with just some of their ability to fight it off on their own. That’s something we going to keep in the back of our minds. (Dr. Dan) Been a great show. We always appreciate you coming on and spending time with us. Anything else on ringworm or warts? (Dr. Matt) No. I mean it’s frustrating and I feel the pain of producer a lot of times you’re trying to get these things cleared up and it can be a lot of work to get it done. (Dr. Dan) Make sure you plan ahead. Make sure you work with your local practitioner and if you want to know more about what we’re doing on DocTalk you can find us at I’m Dr. Dan Thomson here with Dr. Matt Miesner. We’re at Kansas State University’s College of Veterinary Medicine and we’ll see you down the road.

Closed Captioning brought to you by AgriLabs, the Perfect Pairing of Performance and Value.

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